Leading with Power & Purpose

126. How to Embrace Your Unique Path as a Leader

• Sabine Gedeon • Season 6 • Episode 126

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Are you planning a pivot into a career that better aligns with your core values?  Embracing your unique path and staying true to personal values can lead to remarkable opportunities and growth.

In this episode of the Leading with Power & Purpose Podcast, Sabine speaks with Nola Cartmill. Nola is the Chief Diversity Officer and a member of the legal department for Holmes Murphy and is responsible for leading the company's diversity, equity, and inclusion strategy. She emphasizes that power, authority, and influence aren’t solely tied to titles and why women and people of color need to redefine these concepts.

Listen in to learn the importance of having supportive relationships and adopting self-care practices to help you maintain personal power and confidence in leadership. You will also learn how women, by unifying and collaborating, can drive collective success and bring about significant change in leadership.

Key Takeaways: 

  • Understanding the societal perceptions of power, authority, and influence in the context of gender and race.
  • The importance of recognizing that you can be powerful, have authority and influence people by creating relationships.
  • The importance of having a strong support system for maintaining personal power and overcoming self-doubt.
  • The need for women to support each other and work together for collective success and empowerment.

What You Will Learn in This Episode: 

  • [02:00] Nola’s educational journey, the evolution of her career from law practice to DE&I work, and the pivotal moments that led to her current role.
  • [08:12] DEI initiatives at Holmes Murphy and the impact of having a dedicated focus on these efforts.
  • [11:40] She shares her perspectives on the power, authority, and influence concepts.
  • [17:34] Nola reminisces about her early career experiences and how her understanding of power has evolved.
  • [20:01] The role of supportive relationships and self-care practices in maintaining personal power and confidence in leadership.
  • [24:18] The importance of unifying and collaborating among women to drive collective success and change.

Connect with Nola:

Books Recommendations:

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HOST INFO:

Sabine Gedeon is a dynamic force in the world of leadership and personal development. As the Founder of Transformed Leadership Institute and CEO of Gedeon Enterprises, Sabine leverages nearly 20 years of experience to guide clients in both startups and Fortune 500 companies. Her unique approach combines human-centered principles with tech-enabled solutions, delivering customized programs for leaders at all levels to tackle crucial leadership and talent development challenges.

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ADDITIONAL SUPPORT:

Download Free Resources - https://sabinegedeon/gifts
Get Coaching Support: https://meetwithsabine.as.me/Discovery

Are you tired of playing small and ready to step confidently into your greatness and share your unique brilliance with the world? Well, you're in the right place. I'm your host Sabine Gideon, and I've dedicated nearly two decades empowering individuals and leaders as they confidently navigate the twists and turns of life and career transitions. If you're seeking direction, connection, or just a little push to play bigger, consider this podcast, your VIP path to a community that genuinely understands your journey. Join me every week for candid conversations and practical guidance designed to help you navigate the challenges of life and business, foster a growth mindset, and cultivate meaningful connections. It's time to embrace your inherent power, define your unique purpose, and prosper in every aspect of your life. Let's get started.

Sabine:

Hello and welcome I'm your host, Sabine Gideon, and I'm excited to be back again this week with another episode on the series of Women in Power. Of course, I've brought you an amazing guest this week to share her experiences, both with power and in general. Nola, welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you here.. I'm going to tell the audience a little bit about you, but I want you to be able to share in your own words, your career journey. As the chief diversity officer and a member of the legal department for Holmes Murphy, Nola Cartmill is responsible for leading the company's diversity, equity and inclusion strategy and making strategic recommendations to the executive committee. Wow. Nola. Thank you.

Nola:

Thank you for having me.

Sabine:

Yeah, I'm happy to have you here. I would love for you to, to walk us through your career journey and, and some of the, the catalyst because you're, you're like on career number two, maybe even three at this stage. And so I'd love to hear, you know, what, how you started and the work that you're doing today.

Nola:

So I would say, and I think maybe we'll get into some of this later, but I was really the type of person who was like on a path. So I always knew that I wanted to be a lawyer. And so that really informed how I went about where I was going to go to college and all of those things. I went to the University of Iowa, originally from Iowa. The thought around that was that I wasn't going to spend a lot of money on my undergrad because I knew that I was going to have more expenses, uh, through law school, um, in terms of where I went to law school. I thought I was going to go to the University of Iowa. there are a lot of people throughout my University of Iowa experience, uh, that really sort of provided that mentorship that I really needed. I don't come from a family who, who are lawyers, and so to help navigate that, um, I was able to get a free Kaplan course through my pre law advisor, um, which helped me get a better LSAT score, and then I was able to get some sort of free applications that opened up some money to apply to maybe some schools that were more rich schools, um, and I really didn't think I was going to apply to any more Ivy League, but I got something in the mail, uh, from Harvard saying they had a children's advocate. advocacy, um, program. And I was thinking to myself, I was like, okay, uh, Ivy League can't be all that bad. So I was able to apply to some different colleges, uh, and, uh, law schools. And, uh, Dean Elena Kagan at the time was now Supreme Court Justice. So, so just the people you were able to interact with. I still wasn't sure about East Coast people, um, but I gave it a shot anyway and ended up, had a great experience, uh, out there at Harvard. And then after my first year of law school, interestingly enough, you know, I had spent really my whole life sort of navigating just getting from the next point to the next point. And so I was always just making myself whatever I needed to be to get to the next point. Um, and so that was probably true. When I first arrived, I was sort of like, I have all these student loans from Harvard and I'm just going to like put my head down, do the work and make money so that I can pay off these loans. Um, and it was probably a little bit into my career at, um, well, Probably a little bit further into my career than I would have hoped it would be and hope hoping that I can help others not have it be that that far into their career, but I realized that I was sort of selling myself short and really selling the firm short on what I can provide what I could offer when I was just trying to be like everyone else. Um, I practice employment law and so obviously we would get complaints in and just having a different perspective and being able to speak about where someone might be coming from. Um, and so being able to help our clients navigate those issues with their employees and say like, hey, This might not be illegal, but this is where you're coming from, and this is where you're coming from, and how do we meld that and get to a better place overall? Um, and so I did that for a little over a decade, 12, 13 years, say somewhere around there. Probably by year 10, I realized that I don't know if Filling my hours in six minute increments is really the life that I want to lead. Um, and so this was probably pre pandemic, but I've always been one that just goes down the path. And so like, I had sort of like in the world of law, I'd reached the pinnacle. I'd made partner at my firm and thought to myself, you know, Why are you wanting more? You've sort of done it and not really knowing what I could, what else I could do at the law law degree. Also, I have a family who's super proud, right? um, but also are the type of people. I have a mom and a dad who have both been under jobs for well over 20 years, maybe 30 years by now. And so people in my family don't leave jobs uh, just because they wanna do something different. Um, and, but finally at post pandemic, my dad had a terrible bout of Covid, was in the hospital. The doctors were telling us, like maybe he was going to die, just really started re evaluating my life out of miscarriage, um, and really started thinking, hey, like this isn't all that life is about, and I should be able to go somewhere every day. My best friend actually says, does, you know, not everything's going to fill your cup, but how much does it drain it? Um, and work was draining my cup. Um, and so, uh, decided to look for something different, actually had an opportunity. Where and my former partner is general counsel at Holmes Murphy, uh, was a reference for me. He said, okay, I wasn't going to approach from the firm, but now that you're looking for something, we are standing up our diversity, equity, inclusion program. You're a great talent. I think that you would be a great addition to the team. Would you be willing to take a meeting? I mean, I had already accepted. I was moving out of town. I was selling my house. Um, but again, and it. And I'm a super loyal person. So I was like, I've already told these people, I'm coming. Um, what am I going to do? But again, sort of realizing like, Oh, like this feels right to have meetings. So I had the meeting, um, had a great experience. Holmes Murphy has a great culture. Um, I was really going to be able to build something from scratch and really have a lot of power to design what that looked like for folks. And it just was a really exciting yet scary opportunity. Um, decided to stay here. Perfect, uh, you know what they say, um, when we make plans, God laughs, um, because it turned out to be perfect about a week after I accepted the job at Holmes Murphy, I found out that I was expecting again, um, and so I did not have to uproot my entire life, got to stay in my house, uh, and that is how I ended up at the That's the chief diversity officer at Holmes Murphy. So I know that that was sort of a long introduction, but, uh, that is how, that is how I got where I'm at. Yeah,

Sabine:

that is perfect. And I love. I love the multifacetedness of it, right? So there were there were things that you just kind of let flow and let happen. And then there are things that you were intentional about. And even when you like hit crossroads, like the decisions came from what feels right right now. So I think that's very important to highlight because sometimes we see people at the top of the mountain, right? And we don't know what it took, what those decisions were to even get to that mountain. Um, and you know. There's no linear path. There's no such thing as this linear path, whether you're, you know, going to the C suite or you're starting your business. Like, it's all about those twists and turns, and it's like every decision that we make leads to the next thing. But it almost sounds like you are already... Based on the work that you do today, like it's not a deviation. It's not a huge deviation from who you already were and what you were doing. It's just a different environment. Is that accurate?

Nola:

Yeah, I would say some people are like, oh, you were a lawyer and now you're a chief diversity officer. And I was like, it was really a shift. I was doing some of the work internally. In fact, some of my colleagues probably wish I would have said that. you know, stood up a diversity consulting practice and stayed at the firm. Um, but I sort of just wanted a change in environment. And so that's what I got to change an environment. Um, I'm able to focus on my primary client, obviously is Holmes Murphy, and so I'm able to really get in and understand the culture of that organization. But one of the parts of my job that I really like is the work that I do with Ethos are. Uh, partner company, um, and I'm still able to have some of that client facing role. And so I work with other clients as well, um, and go in and get to figure out their business and what they're doing regarding D and I, and help them sort of figure out what's next for them. And again, it's not always about like what I want their program to be or what everyone else is doing. It's really about, uh, figuring out. What they need to do. And so to that point that you made about what feels right, sometimes D and I, it's also about like, what feels right. It has to be authentic to your organization or it's not going to survive.

Sabine:

Yeah. Yeah. And I was on, yeah, I was on the website and you know, I love the fact that there were employee testimonials that was just like, this is not a check, a check off the box. Type situation. This is not a just lip service, right? In terms of how DEI is valued at the organization, that it is actually lived and embedded in the culture. Um, and I'm sure that has a lot to do with the work that you've been able to do. And what, like the two years that you've been there.

Nola:

Yeah, so I've been there about a year and a half. And, you know, I like to tell people I didn't see it completely from scratch. They had some work going. But I like to say that I was able to come in, refine it, make some tweaks and really just having someone that's dedicated and focused on what we're doing. And so, you know, I think we're able to fail faster because we have to understand that in life. We all fail, but it's kind of how quickly we get back up and get on the horse. And so, um, really, I think having that focus and having that person that can say like, Hey, let's try this. Oh, wait, that didn't work. Let's do it quickly. Um, and when people are trying to balance that with their everyday job, maybe that doesn't happen as quickly as it is able to happen with me in house.

Sabine:

Yeah, we're just going to go ahead and let you own it and say that it all hap it's, it's all this way because of you.

Nola:

I will take that, although, uh, I am very humble and I get that from my mom. We were just having a conversation about it the other day.

Sabine:

Okay, awesome. So that, that brings me to, to this next, uh, space, right? As we're thinking about Women in power and what that looks like. And we were talking about this before. And certainly the audience has heard me, um, you know, share my views on power that we have. We are in a society where we attribute leadership or we attribute power. We attribute. Certain things to individuals because of their role or because of the quote unquote perceived authority that this person may have. And so you've heard me say this, that leadership is innate, but also I want to uncover or unpack our relationship with power because I think it's, it's important because I think It could be easy to wrap your mind around the fact that leadership is innate. Um, but also power is an innate thing that we all have access to. And so, as you think about, you know, uh, these three words, right? So power, power, authority and influence. So we'll start with, uh, how do you perceive the differences between the three and how would you define them? And then how has that shown up for you?

Nola:

So I'll start with, I think, to me, in my mind, the easiest one. So influence, I really don't think that we necessarily assign that to anyone, right? Anyone can come in and be influential, and it really is how you show up in the room. I think the other two can have that, but we don't See operated like that as much and so power I think we are often assigning it to people with the title, as you said, and that is not really the way that power and you can ask for power you can gain power. I. recently been reading this book called the I deconstructed and just talking about, you know, how do we change organizations and part of the conversation is about power and sort of where it lies and how we think about it. And so I, I think that we can switch how we just assign power. Power is not just by the CEO or your supervisor or your manager. You have a lot of power and. There are different kinds of power, right? And so realizing that you have your own power that you can show up in. And then authority, I really think is Again, we assign it and we say that like, Oh, a supervisor has authority or the CEO has authority. Um, but I really think it's the way in which we present our ideas. And, um, I don't want to sort of go into topics, but, uh, particularly I think women don't perceive themselves as having authority. Um, and so it is. Uh, and probably people of color, too. And so perceiving that you're not in a position to have authority, um, and really also our society in many ways is set up to assign power and authority to a certain kind of person. And so I think we need to take some of those labels off, but that's how I would see the difference is probably a lot of people think that they can have influence and not a lot of people think that they can have power and

Sabine:

authority. Yeah, I love that. I feel like every Every stage that I've been in, like it helps me redefine or define the three a little better. as I've been thinking through this, it's almost like I relate them to the B do have right. So, um, power is, is just. We are powerful. We are powerful human beings. Like if you strip titles, if you strip corporate America, you just look at the animal kingdom, you look at nature, you look at society, right? We are the only ones who have like a mind and a will and the ability to create from a vision within ourselves. Like we create. things, right? So to me, I'm looking at power from a perspective of at the very basic personal power. We have authority or we're given authority. And then influence is really, you know, what we're able to do with it. The one thing that I've come to realize is that the the biggest difference between how women demonstrate power or authority or influence or any of that capacity is that it is with right. It's about bringing people together the natural nurturers in us, whereas men, the way they're that they're able to express it is really power over. And I think for a very long time, when we see power in the media or when we see power reflected back in the people of position, it's always this dominating force, right? That's not our natural thing. Like we're, we don't operate like that. And so it's a, it's a natural tendency to be like, okay, well, if that's power. I don't want I don't want any parts to that, right? Because that's not how I operate. And so we gravitate towards what does it look like to be influential, which I think is a natural talent and a skill too. But I believe that you have to demonstrate all three. You have to embrace all three because different situations are going to require you to tap into wisdom from your place of power, your place of authority, or your place of influence.

Nola:

I really like that. I hope you don't have it copyrighted because I'm going to steal it. Um, that's, that's a really important point. And, you know, just from personal experience, I will tell you now that I'm in the corporate America, right, we do all of these assessments and personality things. And so I've spent far more time thinking about how I show up as a person, what my personality is. And we were actually sitting in our executive committee and we have enterprise leaders that all meet together and we did this. exercise based on our strengths, and we only were focusing on the top five. All of my top five are in relationship building, um, which perhaps in my current job makes a lot of sense, but I'm like, how was I a lawyer if I, like, I am not, you know, influencing and all of these things that we think of as power and, you know, I've done the colors before and, you know, it's sort of, You know, if you're in a room of leaders, if you're not a red, people are, you know, like, Oh, like I'm a red and everyone sort of holds that as some type of trophy. And I'm like, Oh, like I'm a little bit more of a blue or a green, but to your point, um, you can have power by creating relationships. Or you can be powerful by creating relationships. You can have authority. By creating relationships and you can influence people by creating those relationships and so recognizing that those three things don't have to be done one way even though that is what has been modeled on our society and there's probably a lot of things that have been modeled on our society recognizing that you do not have to fit the mold in order to How to do and be those things.

Sabine:

Absolutely. I love that. When do you think your first, I guess, introduction to, uh, what might have been perceived like the, the, either the soft power or like that real dominating power. Like, if you think back to like the earlier experiences that you've had, like, is there anything that stands out in your mind that like says, okay, this is where. This is where I gave power, like, meaning X, or this is what made me realize that, oh, that's what it means to demonstrate power.

Nola:

So, it's kind of a tough question, but I'll sort of go back. In my earlier career, I worked with this partner, um, who obviously ended up being my partner, but, uh, at that time, I was an associate. And he would often come in, and I think because, The way in which I was operating power at that time was only soft power, right? I didn't feel like I had any power as an associate and he would, I would go into his office. We talked about something and he was like, Nola, tell me, do you want to be Batman or Robin? Um, and I think what he thought is that I wanted to be Robin because I was not exercising this, you know, I'm just going to tell you like it is. Um, and I am just more of a. I'm a deferential person when I feel like somebody else has more power. And so I try to influence the decision. And so I think he probably, to your point about people seeing it as weak, did not see it as really me trying to sort of affect the result or like what, uh, you know, Um, method we were going to take in a case, like what way we were going to go, what was going to be our theory. Um, I was having conversations and feel, feeling like I was influencing that, but he wanted me to come in and say, I was right. I'm right. This is the way we should go because of X, Y, and Z. And so I think that really defined power for me in recognizing like, at that point in time, and even still today, I would say, I don't need to be Batman. Uh, and Also, Batman doesn't have to be the way we think of Batman, right? Um, and so in many ways, uh, I probably now today and at that point in my career, I wouldn't have seen it that way. I really did think I was Robin. I thought he wanted me to be Batman. And so I was trying to fit myself into this, uh, role that he wanted me to be, which is just not who I am as a person. Um, but now I see that I can be Batman. Uh, with what other people might perceive as relevant, and I'm just comfortable and own that.

Sabine:

I love that. I love that. And speaking of, so how do you maintain personal power over time? Is there anything that you do or any, any individuals you surround yourself with to remind you and to hold that mirror up to show you in those moments when you don't feel powerful, when you don't even feel like Robin, um, that you are reminded, you know, this is who I am. This is. This is what's in me, and this is, this is my greatness, pretty much.

Nola:

So I was, I'm glad you said people who surround you because it's not necessarily anything that I do, although I'll get into something a little bit that I do, but, uh, really surrounding myself with great relationships. I have a really tight knit family, particularly on my mother's side. I come from just a host of strong Black women, uh, and they will not let you forget that you have power in the world. Um, and one of those people, which is Very interesting. It's actually my younger sister. Both of my sisters are very supportive, but my younger sister is just sort of this, like, own it. You are a bad you know what, and you should own that. But I also have a group of, because I do think that it's important, um, just because if anyone else relies on family, I think it's important to always have somebody outside of family too, right? There are different dynamics. And so I also have a couple text chains of other, uh, 30 to 40 year old Women lawyers, um, that are sort of my rocks. And when we have those moments, I have people with which I can feel vulnerable and go to them and say, right, we can't always walk into the room and like admit to the CEO that we don't feel very powerful or that we are having imposter syndrome. But I have those circles where I can say, you know, I just don't know, you know, somebody else's LinkedIn profile, right? Like I was viewing LinkedIn and they look super impressive and I have to show up to this place and like, what am I going to do? And I have people who are like, Okay, like I'll give you your moment and your pity party for two seconds. And now I'm gonna tell you who you really are. And it's really just a reminder, right? We know who we really are. Almost all of us know who we really are. Another thing is at one point in my life, I think, again, I was in that sort of, I need a shift. And I went to therapy, because part of it was owning Why I understanding really why I feel the way about myself and tools and tricks to get over that because some people and it might not be that deep for some people it was that deep for me that I really needed to work on why I felt that way and learn tools and tricks to take myself to the next level because I was holding myself. own self back. Um, and then finally, I am a big Peloton fan. Um, and I think that they have great instructors. And there are a few instructors that like, I just always leave every ride or walk or run or yoga session with like a little tidbit. And, um, those are the types of things that I repeat. So I'm not an affirmation person necessarily, but I can repeat those things to myself. And I share them with all the women around me too, so that like, we can really feel. Great about ourselves and feel that we are operating in a space, even though we might not always feel like it, we are powerful and wonderful and made to be in the positions that we are.

Sabine:

Yeah. I love that. And you, you hit on, uh, what I would have asked as an, uh, as another question, I think when it comes to, you know, power and exercising power and authority and influence and feeling comfortable and confident about it is. We have to be surrounded by other people who are okay with us exercising it and showing up as that and also mirroring it for us. And I think, you know, one of the areas that we as women, um, really have room for is Really building that unity, um, really moving away from, and, and I'm, I'm not saying this is women's fault. I know society has done its job to create that competitive, uh, mindset and that competitive environment. But it's almost like I have this belief and it's not just my belief, but when we see someone and we're like, Oh my gosh, she's a powerhouse or, Oh my gosh, she is da, da, da, da, da, right. The sometimes the immediate thing is, Oh, but I'm not, or this is the deficiency in me, or this is out of that. And I'm always like, no, no, no, no, no, you could not even see her greatness. You could not see her powerhouseness. If it were not in you. And I just feel like we're in a space, especially women where Um, the need to unify and the need to collaborate the need to come together is becoming more and more pressing, right? Like this, this place that we may have been for previous, uh, generations where it's, it, it is about competition or maybe not even competition, but isolation. It's almost like it's become very clear when we come together. Stuff happens change happens.

Nola:

Yeah, I really agree with that. It's sort of, uh, just to use, like, a very recent example, I think some people have been comparing, like, Beyonce's tour and Taylor Swift's tour, right? If they both were, they aren't thinking about each other, right? Like, they might, but not in a negative way, right? Like, they're like, you could be fully successful. They're both selling out crowds. Uh, you know, charging. Tons of money for tickets and being super successful. Um, and so really understanding that, you know, the sun shines, the moon shines. We're not, we're not all the same, but we can all shine. Um, and sort of, you had mentioned the women's suffrage movement. And so I feel like I wouldn't be a DEI officer if I didn't talk about the intersectionality of all of this. But I mean, there was some conflict at the time and really some And so I think that as women, we have to be careful not to do that. And so, you know, it was sort of like, hey, well, I don't want to fight for black women because I really want the thing that I'm trying to get. Um, and I think we've seen some of that in recent society and recognizing that no, like we can all unify and fight for the same things and we don't need to create division amongst ourselves because we really have. We're more powerful together than we are apart. And so recognizing that, you know, Hey, there might be someone, you know, super fabulous. And I, even in this new role, right, because I am new to the, uh, diversity space and recognizing that I don't have to compare myself to another chief diverse. the officer. Hey, why don't I have a conversation like we can do better things together? Um, and we can lean on each other's experiences. And I dare to say that, you know, I would hope that even someone who's been doing this for a long time can learn something for me that's coming in with fresh eyes and a new perspective. And so there is the sharing of both ways. And so Recognizing that there is some intersectionality and we can create division amongst ourselves. Um, but everyone has an opportunity to shine their space for all of us in this world.

Sabine:

Absolutely. Absolutely. I cannot have said that better. And so I just want to get through these, uh, this split session really, really quick, knowing what you know about yourself today and all of your experiences. If you could go back to a younger version of yourself and give her a piece of advice, what might that be? Uh,

Nola:

this is not going to be really serious. I would tell myself to have more fun for a long time. I just. was doing the next thing to get me to the next step. And as I look back at some of my experiences, like someone was like, would you do college over again? And how would you do it differently? I would have more fun.

Sabine:

I love that. I love that. And then looking ahead when you, you know, you've done all the work, you've made all the impact and you are looking back at your life. What do you want that narrative to be?

Nola:

I want people to say about me, whatever space I showed up in, whether it's in my role as a mom, as a partner, as a sister, family member, coworker, chief diversity officer, community supporter, that I, every environment I came in, I left it better than what I found

Sabine:

it. I love that. And then lastly, has there been a book or books that have been pivotal for you in your growth, in your success?

Nola:

I have to say Michelle Obama's becoming and I watched all of the podcasts that she did with various folks after that, but I have a very similar story. Unfortunately, I didn't marry Barack. And so like my story didn't lead me to the White House, but a very similar story that she has, you know, sort of just doing the next right thing to get her and it. Recognizing and I think really reading her books, uh, becoming in particular, but her other book as well helped me sort of step out of that and realize that there could be a path that doesn't look like the path that you maybe thought it did in the fifth grade. And that's okay.

Sabine:

I love that. I love that. Well, thank you so much, Nola. Uh, if the audience is looking to connect with you, where do you hang out? What's, what's the best place to get in touch with you? You can find me

Nola:

on LinkedIn. Um, and you can also call into Holmes Murphy, just a regular line. They'll, they'll find me, send you to my number. And so, uh, that's probably the best way.

Sabine:

All right. Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Nola. Thank you for your time, your wisdom for sharing your journey for those of you who are tuning in this week. Thank you so much for being here. Uh, be sure to connect with Nola. Let her know that you heard her on the, podcast with that. I will be back next week with another amazing, a talented powerhouse. Take care and have a great rest of the day.

Hope you enjoyed this week's episode. If you found today's conversation helpful, or got a piece of insight that you plan to implement in your life, I'd love to hear from you. Connect with me on LinkedIn at Sabine Gideon and send me a message, or feel free to leave a review on either Apple or Spotify. I also invite you to share this episode with anyone in your network, another powerhouse, possibly who you think might benefit from today's conversation. Lastly, as always, any links, any resources, or any upcoming training is included in the show notes. So be sure to check that before you leave today until we chat again, have a blessed and powerful week.

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